Discussion:
[Bitpim-devel] Mac Calendar Debug
d***@netzero.com
2005-01-08 06:24:35 UTC
Permalink
Vic, Steve, when you get a chance, please give this a try. I put some debugging stuff and raise an exception at one point to get a frame rollback. Thanks,

-Joe Pham
Vic Heintz
2005-01-08 12:21:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@netzero.com
Vic, Steve, when you get a chance, please give this a try. I put some
debugging stuff and raise an exception at one point to get a frame
rollback. Thanks,
An exception before GUI comes up. BitPim dies. - Vic

Terminal: "Ignoring an exception as the exception dialog is already up"

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/Users/vic/Projects/bitpim/calendarentryeditor.py", line 808,
in OnMakeDirty
raise ValueError
ValueError

Variables by last 8 frames, innermost last

Frame MainLoop in
//Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-
packages/wx/_core.py at line 5262
self = <gui.MainApp; proxy of C++ wxPyApp instance at
_0213cd00_p_wxPyApp>

Frame MainLoop in
//Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-
packages/wx/_core.py at line 4732
args = (<gui.MainApp; proxy of C++ wxPyApp instance at
_0213cd00_p_wxPyApp>,)
kwargs = Keys []
{}

Frame <lambda> in
//Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-
packages/wx/_core.py at line 10604
event = <wx._core.PyEvent; proxy of C++ wxPyEvent instance
at _03c93350_p_wxPyEvent>

Frame OnPopulateEverythingFromDisk in /Users/vic/Projects/bitpim/gui.py
at line 878
self = <gui.MainWindow; proxy of C++ wxFrame instance at
_0228a340_p_wxFrame>
results = Keys ['calendar', 'categories', 'phonebook',
'ringtone-index', 'wallpaper-index']
{'phonebook':
{'62b2f3d79ccf52b1a2baa0e5b28904a0a0ff1496': {'serials': [{'serial
_ = None

Frame SafeYield in
//Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-
packages/wx/_core.py at line 5039
args = ()
kwargs = Keys ['onlyIfNeeded']
{'onlyIfNeeded': True}

Frame OnDirtyUI in /Users/vic/Projects/bitpim/phonebookentryeditor.py
at line 32
self = <phonebookentryeditor.WallpaperEditor; proxy of C++
wxPanel instance at _03a2668
evt = <wx._core.CommandEvent; proxy of C++ wxCommandEvent
instance at _0330f5b0_p_wxCo

Frame ProcessEvent in
//Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-
packages/wx/_core.py at line 2645
args = (<phonebookentryeditor.WallpaperEditor; proxy of C++
wxPanel instance at _03a266
kwargs = Keys []
{}

Frame OnMakeDirty in /Users/vic/Projects/bitpim/calendarentryeditor.py
at line 808
self = <calendarentryeditor.Editor; proxy of C++ wxDialog
instance at _03a7f190_p_wxDia
_ = <wx._core.PyCommandEvent; proxy of C++
wxPyCommandEvent instance at _032dc850_p_
d***@netzero.com
2005-01-08 19:51:59 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Vic, please try this out.

-Joe Pham
Vic Heintz
2005-01-08 21:15:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@netzero.com
Thanks Vic, please try this out.
<calendarentryeditor.py><phonebookentryeditor.py>
Fatal exception when app opens:

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/Users/vic/Projects/bitpim/calendarentryeditor.py", line 808,
in OnMakeDirty
raise ValueError
ValueError

Variables by last 8 frames, innermost last

Frame MainLoop in
//Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-
packages/wx/_core.py at line 5262
self = <gui.MainApp; proxy of C++ wxPyApp instance at
_0213cd00_p_wxPyApp>

Frame MainLoop in
//Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-
packages/wx/_core.py at line 4732
args = (<gui.MainApp; proxy of C++ wxPyApp instance at
_0213cd00_p_wxPyApp>,)
kwargs = Keys []
{}

Frame <lambda> in
//Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-
packages/wx/_core.py at line 10604
event = <wx._core.PyEvent; proxy of C++ wxPyEvent instance
at _039db370_p_wxPyEvent>

Frame OnPopulateEverythingFromDisk in /Users/vic/Projects/bitpim/gui.py
at line 878
self = <gui.MainWindow; proxy of C++ wxFrame instance at
_02b63310_p_wxFrame>
results = Keys ['calendar', 'categories', 'phonebook',
'ringtone-index', 'wallpaper-index']
{'phonebook':
{'62b2f3d79ccf52b1a2baa0e5b28904a0a0ff1496': {'serials': [{'serial
_ = None

Frame SafeYield in
//Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-
packages/wx/_core.py at line 5039
args = ()
kwargs = Keys ['onlyIfNeeded']
{'onlyIfNeeded': True}

Frame OnDirtyUI in /Users/vic/Projects/bitpim/phonebookentryeditor.py
at line 32
self = <phonebookentryeditor.WallpaperEditor; proxy of C++
wxPanel instance at _03a2655
evt = <wx._core.CommandEvent; proxy of C++ wxCommandEvent
instance at _03664160_p_wxCo

Frame ProcessEvent in
//Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-
packages/wx/_core.py at line 2645
args = (<phonebookentryeditor.WallpaperEditor; proxy of C++
wxPanel instance at _03a265
kwargs = Keys []
{}

Frame OnMakeDirty in /Users/vic/Projects/bitpim/calendarentryeditor.py
at line 808
self = <calendarentryeditor.Editor; proxy of C++ wxDialog
instance at _03a7f1d0_p_wxDia
_ = <wx._core.PyCommandEvent; proxy of C++
wxPyCommandEvent instance at _032def00_p_
d***@netzero.com
2005-01-09 00:02:08 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Vic.

-Joe Pham
Vic Heintz
2005-01-09 00:16:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@netzero.com
Thanks Vic.
-Joe Pham
<phonebookentryeditor.py>
Same behavior.

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/Users/vic/Projects/bitpim/phonebookentryeditor.py", line 32,
in OnDirtyUI
raise ValueError
ValueError

Variables by last 8 frames, innermost last

Frame ? in /Users/vic/Projects/bitpim/bp.py at line 79
profile = <function profile at 0x10f4f0>
__file__ = '/Users/vic/Projects/bitpim/bp.py'
__name__ = '__main__'
__doc__ = 'Main entry point to Bitpim\n\nIt invokes BitPim in
gui or commandline mode as a

Frame run in /Users/vic/Projects/bitpim/gui.py at line 361
args = (['/Users/vic/Projects/bitpim/bp.py'],)
m = <gui.MainApp; proxy of C++ wxPyApp instance at
_022105e0_p_wxPyApp>

Frame MainLoop in
//Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-
packages/wx/_core.py at line 5262
self = <gui.MainApp; proxy of C++ wxPyApp instance at
_022105e0_p_wxPyApp>

Frame MainLoop in
//Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-
packages/wx/_core.py at line 4732
args = (<gui.MainApp; proxy of C++ wxPyApp instance at
_022105e0_p_wxPyApp>,)
kwargs = Keys []
{}

Frame <lambda> in
//Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-
packages/wx/_core.py at line 10604
event = <wx._core.PyEvent; proxy of C++ wxPyEvent instance
at _03c96810_p_wxPyEvent>

Frame OnPopulateEverythingFromDisk in /Users/vic/Projects/bitpim/gui.py
at line 878
self = <gui.MainWindow; proxy of C++ wxFrame instance at
_022ddb50_p_wxFrame>
results = Keys ['calendar', 'categories', 'phonebook',
'ringtone-index', 'wallpaper-index']
{'phonebook':
{'62b2f3d79ccf52b1a2baa0e5b28904a0a0ff1496': {'serials': [{'serial
_ = None

Frame SafeYield in
//Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-
packages/wx/_core.py at line 5039
args = ()
kwargs = Keys ['onlyIfNeeded']
{'onlyIfNeeded': True}

Frame OnDirtyUI in /Users/vic/Projects/bitpim/phonebookentryeditor.py
at line 32
self = <phonebookentryeditor.WallpaperEditor; proxy of C++
wxPanel instance at _03a39b6
evt = <wx._core.CommandEvent; proxy of C++ wxCommandEvent
instance at _0334bea0_p_wxCo
d***@netzero.com
2005-01-09 01:18:25 UTC
Permalink
Vic, can you try to run it w/o debug (python -OO bp.py) and see how far it'd go.

Thanks,

-Joe Pham


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Vic Heintz
2005-01-09 01:58:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@netzero.com
Vic, can you try to run it w/o debug (python -OO bp.py) and see how
far it'd go.
Nothing. No GUI. No terminal output. - Vic
Roger Binns
2005-01-09 02:28:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vic Heintz
Post by d***@netzero.com
Vic, can you try to run it w/o debug (python -OO bp.py) and see how
far it'd go.
Nothing. No GUI. No terminal output. - Vic
When running with -O/-OO then all terminal output is thrown away.
This is how the production versions of BitPim ship. (The more
esoteric reason is that the Windows version of Python with py2exe
causes all sorts of bizarre errors once the 4kb buffer for stdout
fills up and there is no stdout).

Roger
d***@netzero.com
2005-01-09 02:41:14 UTC
Permalink
Vic, if the GUI does not show up, it could be because you don't have the native/strings/jarow stuff built. Anyway, please try this out in normal debug mode, I'm starting to run out of ideas...

Thanks

-Joe Pham
Post by Vic Heintz
Post by d***@netzero.com
Vic, can you try to run it w/o debug (python -OO bp.py) and see how
far it'd go.
Nothing. No GUI. No terminal output. - Vic
When running with -O/-OO then all terminal output is thrown away.
This is how the production versions of BitPim ship. (The more
esoteric reason is that the Windows version of Python with py2exe
causes all sorts of bizarre errors once the 4kb buffer for stdout
fills up and there is no stdout).

Roger


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Roger Binns
2005-01-09 03:12:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@netzero.com
Vic, if the GUI does not show up, it could be because you
don't have the native/strings/jarow stuff built.
That is totally transparent. The module tries to use the
C code version and if not present then falls back on the
Python version.

I suspect this whole issue can only be resolved by someone
familiar with the code and a Mac to spend some quality time
on the issue.

If Apple actually have the monitorless machines available during
MacWorld next week then I'll be getting one.

Roger
Steven Palm
2005-01-11 22:11:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Binns
If Apple actually have the monitorless machines available during
MacWorld next week then I'll be getting one.
Is it on order yet? :-)

Steve
Roger Binns
2005-01-12 04:16:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven Palm
Post by Roger Binns
If Apple actually have the monitorless machines available during
MacWorld next week then I'll be getting one.
Is it on order yet? :-)
Yup. They promise delivery by 21 Jan. I had to keep trying at the
online store as it kept timing out. I think they may have had a
rather large number of orders today. Consequently I am extremely
sceptical of the delivery date.

Roger
Vic Heintz
2005-01-09 03:17:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@netzero.com
Vic, if the GUI does not show up, it could be because you don't have
the native/strings/jarow stuff built. Anyway, please try this out in
normal debug mode, I'm starting to run out of ideas...
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/Users/vic/Projects/bitpim/calendarentryeditor.py", line 810,
in OnMakeDirty
raise ValueError
ValueError

Variables by last 8 frames, innermost last

Frame MainLoop in
//Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-
packages/wx/_core.py at line 5262
self = <gui.MainApp; proxy of C++ wxPyApp instance at
_0213cb00_p_wxPyApp>

Frame MainLoop in
//Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-
packages/wx/_core.py at line 4732
args = (<gui.MainApp; proxy of C++ wxPyApp instance at
_0213cb00_p_wxPyApp>,)
kwargs = Keys []
{}

Frame <lambda> in
//Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-
packages/wx/_core.py at line 10604
event = <wx._core.PyEvent; proxy of C++ wxPyEvent instance
at _03c93970_p_wxPyEvent>

Frame OnPopulateEverythingFromDisk in /Users/vic/Projects/bitpim/gui.py
at line 878
self = <gui.MainWindow; proxy of C++ wxFrame instance at
_02b66580_p_wxFrame>
results = Keys ['calendar', 'categories', 'phonebook',
'ringtone-index', 'wallpaper-index']
{'phonebook':
{'62b2f3d79ccf52b1a2baa0e5b28904a0a0ff1496': {'serials': [{'serial
_ = None

Frame SafeYield in
//Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-
packages/wx/_core.py at line 5039
args = ()
kwargs = Keys ['onlyIfNeeded']
{'onlyIfNeeded': True}

Frame OnDirtyUI in /Users/vic/Projects/bitpim/phonebookentryeditor.py
at line 32
self = <phonebookentryeditor.WallpaperEditor; proxy of C++
wxPanel instance at _03a26ca
evt = <wx._core.CommandEvent; proxy of C++ wxCommandEvent
instance at _0334a4c0_p_wxCo

Frame ProcessEvent in
//Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-
packages/wx/_core.py at line 2645
args = (<phonebookentryeditor.WallpaperEditor; proxy of C++
wxPanel instance at _03a26c
kwargs = Keys []
{}

Frame OnMakeDirty in /Users/vic/Projects/bitpim/calendarentryeditor.py
at line 810
self = <calendarentryeditor.Editor; proxy of C++ wxDialog
instance at _03a7ede0_p_wxDia
_ = <wx._core.PyCommandEvent; proxy of C++
wxPyCommandEvent instance at _032dcef0_p_
d***@netzero.com
2005-01-09 03:24:42 UTC
Permalink
The module tries to use the C code version and if not present then >falls back on the Python version.
True in debug mode, in "production" mode, the native module is "insisted".
I suspect this whole issue can only be resolved by someone familiar >with the code and a Mac to spend some quality time on the issue.
100% with you there.

-Joe Pham


______________________________________________________________________
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Roger Binns
2005-01-09 03:56:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@netzero.com
The module tries to use the C code version and if not present then
falls back on the Python version.
True in debug mode, in "production" mode, the native module is "insisted".
Ah yes. It should raise an exception if missing. But a different change
I made elsewhere was not to bring up the exception dialog if it was
already up as that could lead to real bad things if the exceptions were
in drawing code.

Roger
d***@netzero.com
2005-01-09 03:33:51 UTC
Permalink
You must have an older version of calendarentryeditor. Please try this one.

-Joe Pham
Vic Heintz
2005-01-09 04:00:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@netzero.com
You must have an older version of calendarentryeditor. Please try
this one.
Success! The "New" button is functional. Upon clicking on New the
"From:" and "To:" boxes go from the horrible red background to an even
worse black background. Very ugly. They are almost unusable this way.
With a lot of effort you can manage to change the date and time. The
old editor had a similar problem. Roger had blamed it on wxPython. If I
recall this may have been a Jaguar only issue.

Vic
Steven Palm
2005-01-09 05:37:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vic Heintz
Success! The "New" button is functional. Upon clicking on New the
"From:" and "To:" boxes go from the horrible red background to an
even worse black background. Very ugly. They are almost unusable this
way. With a lot of effort you can manage to change the date and time.
The old editor had a similar problem. Roger had blamed it on wxPython.
If I recall this may have been a Jaguar only issue.
It is, they look fine on Panther. Sorry I've been too busy to take a
serious look at this, I'm glad Joe has at least a workaround in place
until the culprit can be made to surface.
d***@netzero.com
2005-01-09 04:13:35 UTC
Permalink
Glad it works for you, this only fixed the symptom, not the cause which is still not clear to me at this point. What's a suitable background color that we can try?

-Joe Pham



______________________________________________________________________
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d***@netzero.com
2005-01-09 06:25:12 UTC
Permalink
boxes go from the horrible red background to an even worse black background. Very ugly. They are almost unusable this way.
For testing purposes, I intentionally set the background & foreground colors, which should have been set by default, to see if that makes any different.

-Joe Pham
Vic Heintz
2005-01-09 07:05:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@netzero.com
boxes go from the horrible red background to an even worse black
background. Very ugly. They are almost unusable this way.
For testing purposes, I intentionally set the background & foreground
colors, which should have been set by default, to see if that makes
any different.
No change in background colors of the date/time controls. BTW your fix
is only good for the first edit. If I try to double-click on a date
again it will not open the editor.

Vic
d***@netzero.com
2005-01-09 07:57:50 UTC
Permalink
See it comes up more than once.

-Joe Pham
d***@netzero.com
2005-01-09 18:50:28 UTC
Permalink
Vic, Steve, did you guys have a chance to test out my latest update?

-Joe Pham


______________________________________________________________________
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Vic Heintz
2005-01-09 23:38:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@netzero.com
Vic, Steve, did you guys have a chance to test out my latest update?
-Joe Pham
Sorry, busy day. Yes, it works much better and allows multiple date
editing. The ugly date control issue with Jaguar will probably never be
resolved since I reported this to wxPython and have had no response.
They are probably moving their attention to Mac OS Tiger.

Vic
Vic Heintz
2005-01-11 23:12:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven Palm
Post by Roger Binns
If Apple actually have the monitorless machines available during
MacWorld next week then I'll be getting one.
Is it on order yet? :-)
Does this mean Roger will be abandoning support for Windows and Linux?

Vic
Steven Palm
2005-01-12 01:54:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vic Heintz
Post by Steven Palm
Post by Roger Binns
If Apple actually have the monitorless machines available during
MacWorld next week then I'll be getting one.
Is it on order yet? :-)
Does this mean Roger will be abandoning support for Windows and Linux?
Haha... I doubt that's likely by any stretch of the imagination, but
it probably means I'm out of a job as the "Mac build builder", which
isn't necessarily a terrible thing. :-) I'll still pitch in where/when
I can.
Roger Binns
2005-01-12 05:39:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven Palm
Post by Vic Heintz
Does this mean Roger will be abandoning support for Windows and Linux?
To be honest I detest MacOS and find it very user hostile. I first used
it in 1985, and find that to be true even today. I have used all manner
of GUIs over the years so it isn't a 'one mindset' problem. (*)

I have two reasons for doing some Mac stuff myself. One is a pure
professionalism thing. I deliberately chose to make BitPim something
that works in as many places as possible, and take pride in ensuring
it does, and continues to do so. To paraphrase Voltaire, I may not
agree with your choice but I'll continue to ensure that you have one :-)

The other reason is a broadening the mind thing. It is important to
see many different ways of doing things, and to use them for inspiration
when doing an even better job :-)
Post by Steven Palm
Haha... I doubt that's likely by any stretch of the imagination, but
it probably means I'm out of a job as the "Mac build builder", which
isn't necessarily a terrible thing. :-) I'll still pitch in where/when
I can.
The real question is how many different versions of MacOS do I want
to deal with. I am going to limit it to two, which will initially be
10.3 and 10.4. (Do you have any pointers on how to setup a machine
so I can make it multi-boot with completely independent partitions
for each version?)

The main thing that will still be needed is "deep" Mac stuff. Since
I can't possibly use all combinations of cellphones with all combinations
of desktop operating systems and their versions, there will be stuff
I won't notice that others will after a few minutes.

(*) I am busy watching the keynote. Some good stuff there so who knows ...

Roger
Steven Palm
2005-01-12 16:39:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Binns
To be honest I detest MacOS and find it very user hostile. I first used
it in 1985, and find that to be true even today.
1985 bears no resemblance to today in terms of MacOS. However, I'm
still open to the fact that you'll despise it after working with it
when your new box arrives. :-) I find Linux to be very user hostile,
but geek friendly, so go figure.
Post by Roger Binns
I have two reasons for doing some Mac stuff myself.
I understand completely, Roger, and I hope you didn't think I was the
least bit slighted by any of this. Even if I had a large chunk of time
to put into the project, I would commend you for wanting to have
first-class hands-on experience with how the Mac port is functioning.
Post by Roger Binns
The real question is how many different versions of MacOS do I want to
deal with. I am going to limit it to two, which will initially be
10.3 and 10.4. (Do you have any pointers on how to setup a machine so
I can make it multi-boot with completely independent partitions for
each version?)
If I had my druthers, I wouldn't be building for Jaguar any longer.
But, there is demand, so I do it. :-) It's VERY unfortunate that Apple
is going to really irritate you when they ask you to pay them $129 in a
few months to buy a copy of Tiger. I almost ordered a Mac mini myself
when I saw them, to use as a central backup server and media device,
but then common sense got the better of me and I thought I would wait
until it's shipping with Tiger. There will most likely (I almost can
guarantee this) be ABSOLUTELY NO DISCOUNT on the purchase price of
Tiger when it's released.

Anyway, to the question at hand... For my Jaguar stuff, I just put a
drive into a cheap firewire enclosure and I boot from that to do Jaguar
work, and I've left my internal drive strictly Panther. However, there
is nothing that would prevent you from partitioning the drive and
easily booting from either partition, it works very well... There is a
preference panel in the system preferences to select which system you
want to boot from, or you can simply hold down the OPTION key on the
keyboard while booting the computer and it will present you with a
graphical picker of partitions with installed versions of the OS to
boot from.

When you get it preloaded, you'll either have to boot from the
included DVD and use the Disk Utility program to repartition it and
then do a restore to the new smaller partition, or you'll have to
purchase a utility program to do a live re-parition... There are no
free tools to do this that I know of on the Mac. If you have some
Linux utility that can repartition HFS+ systems, I'd love to know about
it. :-)

There are two that I know of which are commercially available, both
just under $50:

iParition - http://www.coriolis-systems.com/iPartition.php

VolumeWorks -
http://www.subrosasoft.com/thestore/product_info.php?products_id=431

Given that, I'd just re-install the system myself. :-)
Post by Roger Binns
(*) I am busy watching the keynote. Some good stuff there so who knows ...
I'm a musician as well, for me the upgrades to "GarageBand" are the
biggest things coming out of the keynote... Coupled with the Mac mini,
of course.

Steve
Roger Binns
2005-01-12 18:02:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven Palm
1985 bears no resemblance to today in terms of MacOS.
My point was that I have used every version of MacOS since then
up to and including 10.3. I just don't like them. (And I even
agree with things like the reasons for having the menu bar at
the top of screen and not attached to the relevant Window).
Post by Steven Palm
I find Linux to be very user hostile, but geek friendly, so go figure.
It isn't that geek friendly either :-) My favourite sport is
"guess where they hid the config file for program X". And the
distros like to make that sport even more interesting by moving
the config files around in the name of user friendliness.

Heck one of the reasons there is no man page for BitPim is because
no two distros can agree on where the man pages go, and which
way they are compressed. And the packaging format doesn't allow
me to work that out at install time and use the right place.
Post by Steven Palm
I understand completely, Roger, and I hope you didn't think I was the
least bit slighted by any of this.
I never had that idea. Actually I think you'd be grateful that MacOS
builds will become my problem :-)
Post by Steven Palm
But, there is demand, so I do it. :-) It's VERY unfortunate that Apple
is going to really irritate you when they ask you to pay them $129 in a
few months to buy a copy of Tiger.
I spoke to someone who said it will be $19.99. And it won't irritate
me because I won't pay $129. It will be up to the users of BitPim to
supply me with a legal licensed copy if Apple wants that much.

Seperately I will be prepared to do 10.2 if someone sends me an
external bootable drive with a legal licensed copy installed.
Post by Steven Palm
want to boot from, or you can simply hold down the OPTION key on the
keyboard while booting the computer and it will present you with a
graphical picker of partitions with installed versions of the OS to
boot from.
My keyboard is a PC keyboard and doesn't have an option key :-)
Post by Steven Palm
When you get it preloaded, you'll either have to boot from the
included DVD and use the Disk Utility program to repartition it and
then do a restore to the new smaller partition,
That I can do. I assume I can backup to an NFS server.
Post by Steven Palm
I'm a musician as well, for me the upgrades to "GarageBand" are the
biggest things coming out of the keynote...
I was curious if GarageBand would be suitable for making ringtones.

Roger
Steven Palm
2005-01-12 22:11:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Binns
Post by Steven Palm
But, there is demand, so I do it. :-) It's VERY unfortunate that
Apple is going to really irritate you when they ask you to pay them
$129 in a few months to buy a copy of Tiger.
I spoke to someone who said it will be $19.99. And it won't irritate
me because I won't pay $129. It will be up to the users of BitPim to
supply me with a legal licensed copy if Apple wants that much.
There you go. I fear that you were mis-informed, but at the same time
I hope you were given accurate information.... Although that means I
might have to order a mini now as well. :-)
Post by Roger Binns
Seperately I will be prepared to do 10.2 if someone sends me an
external bootable drive with a legal licensed copy installed.
Here is a very reasonable deal on the purchase of a fully-legal MacOS
X Jaguar license:

Only $34.99 with iLife 03, which you'd hardly need, and only $27.95
without:

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/osx-center/software-and-more/

Maybe someone who cares about a Jaguar version of BitPim could be
motivated to help fund that.
Post by Roger Binns
My keyboard is a PC keyboard and doesn't have an option key :-)
ALT :-)
Post by Roger Binns
Post by Steven Palm
When you get it preloaded, you'll either have to boot from the
included DVD and use the Disk Utility program to repartition it and
then do a restore to the new smaller partition,
That I can do. I assume I can backup to an NFS server.
Yes and no... Some Mac files still have vestiges of the old MacOS 9
resource forks in the files and those particular parts that can only be
stored on an HFS type filesystem, unless your software that makes the
copy knows how to break them apart, save them out, and put them back
together when you restore. Some do. There is a great freeware program
called "Carbon Copy Cloner" at http://www.bombich.com that would take
your source drive, make a disk image file (which can be stored on NFS
and alleviate the resource fork issue) for backup.

Since the core stuff that is installed is all (to the best of my
knowledge) on the recovery disks as well, I probably wouldn't bother to
make the initial backup, I'd just repartition it and go.
Post by Roger Binns
I was curious if GarageBand would be suitable for making ringtones.
I don't know... Although their MIDI support is better, I understand
you still cannot export a MIDI file from it. It's really a program
more akin to a scaled down Logic or ProTools, not so much a small
audio/midi editor. There are some decent MIDI editor apps as well as
audio apps, though. Audacity comes to mind for simple audio work.
Roger Binns
2005-01-14 03:43:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven Palm
Maybe someone who cares about a Jaguar version of BitPim could be
motivated to help fund that.
They can pay for it outright. I already pay for enough versions of
enough operating systems :-) And for 10.2 I'd want it on an
external disk so I don't need to have 3 partitions!
Post by Steven Palm
Post by Roger Binns
My keyboard is a PC keyboard and doesn't have an option key :-)
ALT :-)
It also has Windows keys. I wonder what they will do.
Post by Steven Palm
together when you restore. Some do. There is a great freeware program
called "Carbon Copy Cloner" at http://www.bombich.com that would take
your source drive, make a disk image file (which can be stored on NFS
and alleviate the resource fork issue) for backup.
I was going to try and find a bootable Linux and use dd piped through
bzip2.
Post by Steven Palm
Since the core stuff that is installed is all (to the best of my
knowledge) on the recovery disks as well, I probably wouldn't bother to
make the initial backup, I'd just repartition it and go.
Ok. Windows vendors are really bad at not giving you everything on
CD media. And I don't actually want the Quicken that Apple includes.
(I find Intuit a fairly nasty company and won't do business in any
way with them.)
Post by Steven Palm
I don't know... Although their MIDI support is better, I understand
you still cannot export a MIDI file from it. It's really a program
more akin to a scaled down Logic or ProTools, not so much a small
audio/midi editor. There are some decent MIDI editor apps as well as
audio apps, though. Audacity comes to mind for simple audio work.
We can now deal with MP3 or even raw wav and make it work on the phone.
On the VX7000 there isn't even a limit on file size.

Roger
Steven Palm
2005-01-14 20:39:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Binns
Post by Steven Palm
Post by Roger Binns
My keyboard is a PC keyboard and doesn't have an option key :-)
ALT :-)
It also has Windows keys. I wonder what they will do.
They become the old "Apple" key, which is now referred to as a Command
key.

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